pumpkinhollow: (Default)
pumpkinhollow ([personal profile] pumpkinhollow) wrote in [community profile] ph_logs2025-12-19 11:40 am

December Event - Candlelight Revelry

Candlelight Revelry
The Longest Nights
{ CONTENT WARNINGS: grief, especially in a winter/December context, exclusive to Mourner's Night. All others should be mostly cw free! }

It is always interesting to consider that across many cultures, and indeed across many universes, there is something that is shared across numerous groups of people from many, many different backgrounds, and that is the concept of winter holidays. Not every culture has them, of course, and they vary in importance, involvement, reason, and length pretty wildly. But it's fun to think about the fact that all kinds of humanoids all across time and space looked at that bleak stretch of time between the end of November to the beginning of March and thought to themselves, "we should put some kind of party in there so we don't all lose our minds." The people of the Emerald Isles, of which Marrow Isle is one, are much the same in this regard.

Since its inception, Pumpkin Hollow has celebrated the two main winter holidays common among the various nations across Northern Leviathan, which are Mourner's Night and Givingstide. Additionally, it's become a bit of a new tradition in Pumpkin Hollow to join in offworlder celebrations, such as Hanukkah, Solstice, and Christmas--- often with more being added each year as newcomers arrive with their own traditions! And somehow, each year, it seems as though for a few weeks all of the evils take a rest as well. Is it because this time of year is simply too sacred for them to create trouble and pain? Or is it because the weavers of this world are too busy booking family dinners, plane flights, and road trips to subject their little toys to more horrors? It is one of the great mysteries of the universe, isn't it?

Anyway, here's wishing you a cozy, restful, blissful holiday season, regardless of your traditions. May this next year be just as full of adventure and fun, with far less trials and tribulations. (For the players. The characters should continue to endure the torment nexus, of course.)

Local Customs
MOURNER'S NIGHT | December 10th Nightfall comes early this time of year, so it isn't too long of a wait for the sky to grow fully dark. Dressed in mourning clothes and warm coats, the people of the town gather in little clusters in the streets, in near silence. Lanternbearers dressed like undertakers carry tall posts with blazing lanterns hanging from them, faces painted like skulls. There hasn't been a true and final death in Pumpkin Hollow for years now, but that doesn't stop the people here from holding their annual vigil for those that were lost before the barrier.

The lanternbearers guide the groups through town, converging on Main Street, where they are awaited by a long-bodied black carriage drawn by black horses with white skeleton-markings painted on them. A hearse. In the driver's seat, a woman in a tight black dress and a mistletoe-patterned black veil, which gives only the smallest glimpses of her pale hair. It's Fever, acting in the role of Mortanne.

Very few words are exchanged as this procession makes its way through the cold to Fall's Promise Cemetery, where by the light of candles and lanterns alone, Reverend Clayton retells the story of Mortanne's final kindness. Those who pass away are met where they find their end by a horse-drawn hearse, where they ride with Death and recount their life until they reach their destination--- the afterlife they've earned. A mournful hymn is sung that seems to make the sky itself ache, and then…

Silence.

Stay at the candle light vigil for as long as you want. Remember those who you lost back home, honor those who passed away before you arrived but whose influence you still feel every day, or simply pay respects to yourself. You died to be here, after all. And then, when the cold starts biting too much to bear, part ways, and find your way home with a candle in hand. You will surely be left with much to think about.

Those who gravitate towards the outskirts, however, or linger after most have gone, may spy another woman in a black dress and veil. For a moment, it would be easy to mistake her as Fever--- the resemblance is striking. But then you see much longer, stark white hair spilling out of the bottom of the veil, and feel a gaze meet yours that feels like it's calling you home.

GIVINGSTIDE | December 22nd Ah, Givingstide! After the somber observance of Mourner's Night, you only have to wait eleven days to have some proper winter-themed fun!

Held on the day after the longest night of the year, this holiday is a "thank goodness, we made it" tradition that celebrates the beginning of the sun's return and the first step in the journey towards spring. All across numerous countries in Concorde's Northern Hemisphere, communities gather in large communal spaces to eat, drink, and be warm together while exchanging gifts. And for Pumpkin Hollow, that takes place in the Oak & Iron, the beloved tavern where most spend their first nights on the island.

A massive feast is held, where the tavern itself, local restaurants, and amateur chefs collaborate to create a menu of warming, hearty dishes. Soups and stews, pasta, roasted meat, bread, root vegetable dishes, and sweets galore are served alongside hot cider, cocoa, coffee, tea, mulled wine, and mead. Paper horses and snowflakes line the walls, and boughs of pine and holly create beds for skulls on tables and above the fireplace. A miniature sleigh is set up in the center of the room, piled high with gifts that everyone placed in it upon their arrival. Once everyone has gotten their food, the mayor and Dahlia take turns plucking parcels from the pile and reading off who they are for so as to hand them out. Although some do prefer to give the gifts directly. (The mayor, for once, looks relaxed.)

With all the gifts passed out, songs are sung and instruments played in groups while others dance or sit by the fire. Some will go out to play in the snow, and by the end of the night, more than a dozen snowmen will have popped up outside the tavern. Others still will remain inside, basking in the warmth of being among their community. Children play with toys, adults laugh, desserts are overindulged in, and all is well.

OFFWORLD TRADITIONS
Winter Holidays from Around the Universe The interfaith space within the Temple of Sacred Roots stays busy this time of year! Since most local traditions are celebrated outside the temple, many of the main areas are offered to the pursuit of offworld religious observances for much of December.

Hanukkah is up first among the larger celebrations, running from December 14th through the 22nd this year. The island's Jewish population consists primarily of Anzu, Lev/Lyubov, and Zivia, though they'll warmly invite friends and family to join in on the festivities.

Christmas, of course, is on December 25th, though the preceding evening is also a busy time. Despite being a Pumpkin Hollow native, Dahlia Leeds has partners who observe the holiday, as well as a gaggle of young housemates and a television who are all very enthusiastic about Christmas. As such, she's made the decision to host a fairly well-appointed and cozy Christmas Eve party in her home (though she largely allows Radar and the teenagers to select the guest list). Dress in your Christmas best and have dinner at Leeds Estate before proceeding to the Temple for midnight mass! Non-partygoers are invited to attend the ceremony by candlelight as well, as usual. Christmas Day celebrations vary by household!

But for those who don't have anything in particular to do on the afternoon of the 25th, a recent town addition is also hosting a celebration for the Feast of the Winter Star from her own home world. Those who signed up can participate in the "secret gift exchange" organized by Haley. But you don't need to be in the exchange to come and have fun! Light and decorate a holiday tree in the snow, enjoy a potluck with friends new and old, and enjoy some stargazing afterwards--- it's a perfect way to cap off the day, whether you're incorporating it into your own holiday or just there to have a nice time.

Other holidays celebrated throughout the month are:
  • Saturnalia on the 17th, celebrated by Gaeta
  • Winter's Crest on the 20th, celebrated by Cassandra
  • Dongzhi on the 21st, celebrated by Shen Qingqiu alongside his found family
  • Mittvinter on the 21st, celebrated by Hector, Capochin, Godpoke, Patty, and their found family and close friends
  • The Birth of Hathor on the 23rd, celebrated by Marik
  • The Winter Solstice celebration on the 25th, celebrated by Sorceress and Wizard
  • and Gyftmas on the 25th, celebrated by Mettaton and Papyrus

And of course there's New Years Eve on the 31st, celebrated by both locals and a majority of offworlders! Share some holiday cheer with your friends from all across the multiverse and take some time to get to know how your neighbor spends the season this year, and cap this year off with a wonderful, festive bang!

Happy Holidays!
hotgirlsummer: (pink pony club)

Winter Star Gift Exchange

[personal profile] hotgirlsummer 2025-12-19 05:01 pm (UTC)(link)
[ Post your gifts here! You can keep it simple and just describe the gifts and who they're for and then handwave the rest, or you can start up a thread by writing out giving it to the person. Just make sure to be considerate of both your giver and your recipient and show a little love! ]
cyansoldier: (easy)

[personal profile] cyansoldier 2025-12-19 06:05 pm (UTC)(link)

Wrapped in plain brown paper with a note attached, this; a teapot, softly angular in appearance, painted in a rich green glaze and decorated with flowers and golden filigree. The note reads:

Mister Pennyburrow.

You might already have one of these. It's nice to have a spare. Thank you for everything you do for the kids. Your hard work is appreciated. Happy holidays. Stay warm.

- Carolina

Edited 2025-12-19 18:08 (UTC)
nothingbadeverhappensto: (chain)

For South

[personal profile] nothingbadeverhappensto 2025-12-19 11:54 pm (UTC)(link)
Leon has a general sense of who to look for, when it comes to handing over his gift. It doesn't take a master detective or huge genius to figure out that when you meet a guy named North, chances are the extremely similar looking woman who showed up with him might just be South. It even gives him a little bit to go off of, in terms of what to get her. Not a lot - he's admittedly a little nervous about this one - but it's a start.

"Hey," he says, pulling her aside once it seems like she has a moment. In trying to keep his anxiety hidden he's defaulted back to his bad case of resting murderface, but it's probably fine. "You're South, right? I've got something for you."

He nods to the pair of packages under his arm, one flat and rectangular and the other one tube-shaped, both wrapped in plain white paper and tied with twine, before handing them over. If and when she opens them, she'll find a small telescope and a book of star charts, annotated with local legends about the various constellations viewable from Marrow Isle.
ownperson: (pb; purple hmm)

[personal profile] ownperson 2025-12-24 06:39 pm (UTC)(link)

It's not hard to find a moment where she's free, not really. She doesn't seem to have much of an idea what to do with herself around the gathering, mostly hovering around Haley and occasionally Carolina. And she doesn't seem any more at ease when this guy pulls her aside.

On the one hand, it's possible he asked Haley to point out who the name belonged to, on the other, a lifelong pattern has primed her to expect otherwise. If he connected that dot on his own, then, well—the odds that he's already met North are far from nonzero.

"Uh, yeah. That's me," she says, shifting on her feet and crossing, uncrossing her arms. Needs her hands to accept the packages, which she does after an awkward second. "Gift stuff, right. Yeah. Thanks, uh—?"

That vague sort of sound meant to prompt a name.

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abhorrently: (dance.)

for papyrus.

[personal profile] abhorrently 2025-12-20 01:12 am (UTC)(link)
Carefully wrapped up, a box is waiting for the island's one and only Papyrus. It reveals itself to be made of sturdy wood, and inside is a collection of wooden toy soldiers, all ready to engage in mock battle for the discerning eye.

There's a simple note included:

May they serve their new commander well.

-F.D.
bedknobsandbroomsticks: (052)

For Kris

[personal profile] bedknobsandbroomsticks 2025-12-20 01:32 am (UTC)(link)
Kris receives a small wooden chest with golden ribbon wrapped around it. It's about 11 by 7 inches big. Inside the chest they will find the inside lightly frosted with an enchantment from where two cups of neatly contained Butterscotch pie sit. The enchantment doesn't affect the other gifts inside and will wear off once they've eaten the contents of both dessert cups.

She wasn't sure a knife was a good idea or where to find gold boots, so instead Kris will receive a quill and inkwell as well as a lovely fountain pen.

The last thing is a note that reads:

Dear Kris,
I hope these gifts find you well and that your holiday has been a good one. Should you ever like more Butterscotch pie, let me know through the Sending Stone. I'm more than happy to make more for you. Please look after yourself.

Sincerely, Scarlett
incomingchoppers: (just happy to be here sir!)

For Shen Qingqiu

[personal profile] incomingchoppers 2025-12-20 01:59 am (UTC)(link)
Shen Qingqiu's present is a giant bag absolutely stuffed to the brim with Pez candy. Luckily, Captain Dominguez considered the dispensers part of the packaging! They're all vintage, too... well, vintage from Shen Qingqiu's POV, anyway.

Mr. Shen,

Hello! This is a brand new candy that America just started making. I wouldn't've even known about it if my mom hadn't sent me some! Hope you like it and hope you have fun with the dispensers!

Happy holidays,
Sincerely,
Radar O'Reilly

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not_a_traitor: (can you hear me now?)

For Ralsei

[personal profile] not_a_traitor 2025-12-20 02:02 am (UTC)(link)
Ralsei gets a squishy package that's about the size -- if not the weight -- of two large textbooks. Inside is a thickly-knit scarf that evokes snow on evergreen branches.

(Gaeta's never met the kid, but he figures you can't go wrong with knitwear. Plus... you know. Weaving. Sometimes you just have to lean into the spider stereotype.)

To Ralsei,

Happy holidays! I hope this keeps you warm as we head into winter.

Sincerely,
Felix Gaeta

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thetombkeeper: (091)

For Felix Gaeta

[personal profile] thetombkeeper 2025-12-20 02:22 am (UTC)(link)
He's never actually gotten gifts for people before, outside of making stuff for his siblings. This is... unusual for him.

Gaeta receives a nicely wrapped package. The wrapping paper is the standard brown paper but the ribbon is gold. Inside is a small vial of sandalwood perfume, a long black scarf, and a matching pair of mittens, both made of thick wool yarn.

Included is a note:

If you want a different scent, let me know. I have plenty more I can exchange it with. Have a happy holiday.

- Namu

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spaghettimonster: (THE ARTISTE CONTEMPLATES)

for Cassandra

[personal profile] spaghettimonster 2025-12-20 02:28 am (UTC)(link)
A decent size bag with CASSANDRA written on a tag on a string around the handle, turns out to be holding a square painting stretched over a wooden frame. It's filled with blues, depicting a scene of the sky over the docks and ocean - the shoreline only visible as a sliver of ground along the bottom.

The back of the canvas is signed, simply,
- PAPYRUS

But tucked inside the frame is a knitted doily, wrapped around a note and a slightly yellowed bone with a white ribbon tied in a bow around it. The note reads,

PLEASE ENJOY THE DECORATIVE VIEW!
REGRETFULLY, THE VIEW IS ONLY A DEPICTION OF A SIGHT I ENJOYED.
YOU CAN VISIT THE DOCKS WHENEVER YOU LIKE,
BUT THE CLOUDS WILL NEVER BE THE SAME PATTERN AGAIN.

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aghostinthemachine: (✬ When you're ready we can share the win)

For Glory Coldwood

[personal profile] aghostinthemachine 2025-12-20 02:49 am (UTC)(link)
Glory receives a medium sized box addressed to her! Inside are individual wrapped presents with plenty of pretty ribbons and decorated wrapping paper.

The first present is multiple bags of different flavors of beef jerky. Easy to preserve, long lasting, and delicious!

The second is a bouquet of purple and blue Morning Glories.

The third is a very cute (or creepy depending on your perspective) handmade antique toy of an elf girl in a floral dress. Something about it being inspired by some of the local monsters someone saw once. The worker at the store said its name was "Pazuzu."

Of course, included is a very nicely written note:

Dear Miss Glory Coldwood,

Happy Givingstide! I hope your holiday is filled with lots of presents, love, and plenty of hugs!

Sincerely, Mettaton ♥
hotgirlsummer: (Default)

For Mettaton

[personal profile] hotgirlsummer 2025-12-20 04:41 am (UTC)(link)
Haley is relieved to find that her recipient is someone she has seen around town and knows exactly what the vibe is. She finds Mettaton at the party, carrying a fairly tall gift bag.

"Hi," she says as she passes the bag over. "Hope you like. I added the little detailing myself."

Inside are a pair of fur-lined, high-heeled winter boots and a glass bottle of water-repellent coating intended for suede with instructions to reapply every 3-4 months. The fur-lining was clearly sewn in by hand, but it still looks fairly neat--- someone's been practicing.

"I know the heartbreak of losing a good pair of heels to snow. These should last you a good long while, and I think they'll work with those little outfits you do your shows in, too, yeah?"

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not_the_last: (Default)

For Pyotr Stamatin

[personal profile] not_the_last 2025-12-21 05:50 am (UTC)(link)
The package is labeled Pyotr Stamatin, handwritten in deep blue ink in a fine clear hand, and wrapped in silvery grey paper tied with a blue ribbon.

Inside is a thick pad of high-quality drawing paper, a box of charcoal pencils of varying hardness, a larger box of colored pencils, and a set of pencil sharpeners.
deepbluerevue: BioShock Audio Diary Portrait (Default)

For Fever

[personal profile] deepbluerevue 2025-12-21 08:29 pm (UTC)(link)
A small package enclosed in brown paper carefully adorned with ink squiggles is addressed to Fever. When opened, it reveals a sturdy metal lighter and a bottle of fuel for refills. The lighter is engraved with curlicues, and a motto: Good friends keep us warm.

Along with it is a note:

Dear Fever,

Many happy returns. You were so friendly to me at the festival, I couldn’t help but be delighted that I had the chance to give you a present. You’ve got a big heart. Keep making beauty the way you do. And drop by for coffee, sometime.

Grace Holloway
xiaoxiuya: made by mdzspring (Default)

Sorceress

[personal profile] xiaoxiuya 2025-12-21 09:31 pm (UTC)(link)
Never having met the young lady in question before, Shen Qingqiu tries his best to select an appropriate gift for her based on her appearance and reputation. Unfortunately her appearance is reminiscent of the kind of scantily-clad harem-wife that he always derided so forcefully in the comments of section of stallion novels, which makes shopping for her a little...tricky. It doesn't matter that he's gay, he's still not going to buy a woman he barely knows any lingerie!

Eventually he settles on a nice purple shawl. Miss, you need to keep your chest warm! Imagine how terrible it would be if you got frostbite in such a sensitive area!
lovethyneighb_or: (lacrimosa)

for noelle

[personal profile] lovethyneighb_or 2025-12-22 12:00 am (UTC)(link)
It's a fairly weighty parcel that she gets. Wrapped in plain paper and then cloth for a little extra padding is a book titled Everyday Science Explained, a large illustrated encyclopedia detailing the mechanics behind things such as steam power, weather patterns, the role of proteins in organic life, and the refraction of light through water. The pictures are all in black and white and made through lithographic printing—this place has only recently gotten photography off the ground, after all—but it is nonetheless a lush piece of work.


To Noelle,

I thank you again for the help you've given me, not just around the Temple but outside of it too. You are a much-needed friend to those who have the privilege of your company.

May this let you see the world with a renewed wonder.

Sincerely,
Father Mulcahy.
theonewhosuffers: (Default)

[personal profile] theonewhosuffers 2025-12-22 10:59 am (UTC)(link)
The person who organized such a kind and delightful event deserves something extra-special, so Ralsei spends several days scouring the Winter Market and second-hand shops for anything that looks even slightly sunflower themed. In the end, his effort and patience pays off, and he discovers and adorable set of sunflower-shaped hair pins, perfect for any elegant lady of summer. Shortly afterwards the pins are delivered to Haley's home, with a note that reads,

Miss Haley,

Thank you for organizing this wonderful event, and for providing such clear instructions with regards to your preferences! I had so much fun tracking down these accessories, it was just like a scavenger hunt. I hope you have wonderful, happy holidays, and that we all get to do this again next year!

Warmest regards,
Ralsei
ownperson: (pb; purple full body thinking)

for Radar

[personal profile] ownperson 2025-12-22 06:52 pm (UTC)(link)

If South wasn't staying with Carolina who already knows the guy, she would've been totally lost as to who he her assigned giftee even was, but luckily Carolina exists and South figures something out—even if it sort of takes a couple tries.

The package is simply and plainly wrapped and labelled with a rather scrawly handwriting. For Radar, from South. Inside is a simple but nice compass nested on a pair of solid winter gloves.

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arcanegrasp: (Default)

for Grace Halloway

[personal profile] arcanegrasp 2025-12-23 12:52 am (UTC)(link)
Arranged neatly in a box, its jade green wrapping paper mangled in a bit of a patch-job and tied off with a golden bow, are a small array of items: a telescopic cigarette holder, a set of pearl jewelry, and... a piece of driftwood?

Inside, a note, with a few errant streaks of ink across the page:

To Grace,

We hope you are having a wonderful holiday season, and we hope you enjoy what we've chosen! I know the tobacco of worlds outside our own is a bit different, and there's a few different varieties grown here, so I wanted to give you something you could use with any type you chose. The pearls come from our very own harbor's oysters! The driftwood, too, comes from Jack's Marina, and Glory insisted that it be included. I've fashioned some notches in the end of the branches in hopes that it could serve as a rustic jewelry-holder or something of the sort for you.

Stay warm, and wishing you much joy in the new year!

Yours truly,
Elias and Glory Coldwood

P.S.: Apologies for the mess on this page. She wanted to attempt to help with the letter, as well, and this was the least stained attempt at this letter.
Edited 2025-12-23 00:53 (UTC)

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coolhatluvr: (scream and shout!)

For Carolina

[personal profile] coolhatluvr 2025-12-24 02:30 am (UTC)(link)
After a great deal of soul- and shop-searching, Patty finally gets Carolina a pocketknife with a handle of whalebone, into which has been carved a picture of the town lighthouse and some cute seagulls. A certain mailpoke delivers it to Caroline's mailbox with the following note:

Hi there!

I don't know a lot about weapons, but I figured a good knife is useful for lots of stuff, right? And this one is so pretty with its little carvings, I really hope you like it! The shopkeeper said it's called 'scrimshaw,' and sailors do it to pass the time on long voyages! Pretty neat, right?

Anyway, hope you're enjoying the holidays! Happy Solstice and Mittwinter!

Patty <3
graphomaniac: (Default)

For Namu (Marik)

[personal profile] graphomaniac 2025-12-25 05:45 pm (UTC)(link)

The name is unfamiliar to Lev/Lyubov, but there really aren't that many people in the Hollow who wear gold jewellery, so they have their suspicions — which makes it a little easier to key in on what kind of aesthetic the gold jewellery ought to be.

Eventually, they settle on a snake choker and a pair of matching bangles — all the snake heads have eyes picked out in agate. The jewellery box they wrap in a patterned linen cloth, and add a simple note.

Dear Namu — I hope this gift meets with thy approval and brightens the time until the length of night ceases to exceed the length of day. From L.V. Morgenshtern.

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amourtician: (Default)

For Fr Mulcahy

[personal profile] amourtician 2025-12-25 05:46 pm (UTC)(link)

Paradoxically, Anzu thinks, practical gifts are the hardest to pick out. Eventually, he settles on giving Mulcahy a pair of steel-toed leather boots, the kind that provide both ankle support and protection, a set of steel knitting needles (five sets of four in different sizes, suitable for knitting in the round as well as otherwise), and three skeins of soft wool in yellow, bright white, and a rich sky blue — colours as far away from those in army uniforms as Anzu can imagine.

The note is brief, but heartfelt.

Fr Mulcahy — from one steward and guardian to another, a good pair of boots and something to make such things as are both practical and comforting. Happy Christmas (and khag sameakh). With friendship, Dr A.T. Menelikov.

stoneoftherose: (grey space)

for Lev/Lyubov

[personal profile] stoneoftherose 2025-12-26 12:17 pm (UTC)(link)
The book Lev receives in the mail shows a few tell-tale signs of being secondhand -- yellowed pages, dog-eared corners, and the like -- but the clothing binding is new, and fastened in place with strong, even stitches. The cover reads, in hand-painted letters, Strange Tales of Hepogaia: A collection of folklore and legends from the land beneath the land.

A note tucked between the pages reads as follows:

I hope this is one you haven't read yet. If it is, let me know and I'll try to find you something better.

It is signed with a simple "P. Stamatin."
heartofadreemurr: (pic#17976480)

For Anzu

[personal profile] heartofadreemurr 2025-12-28 04:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Kris spends a long time agonizing over what to get, even after asking Ariel some leading questions about Anzu's style, but finally lands on this gold cut-out pocket watch with a deep blue face. They set it out discreetly with the other gifts, where Anzu will find it wrapped meticulously despite its strange shape and bearing a tag with his name on it. It doesn't say who it's from.
glaceir: (pic#18010338)

for susie

[personal profile] glaceir 2026-01-01 07:18 pm (UTC)(link)
When Noelle gets her gift assignment, she kind of freezes in place for a few seconds. Does Haley know? Does everyone know?? Oh Angel she's so obvious this is so embarrassing she can never live this down but also if she fucks it up that'll be even worse aaaAAAA -

Breathe. She thanks Haley a bit too politely, and keeps on ruminating about her gift.

At the feast, Noelle just kind of. Slides up to Susie. Real suave. And hands her a small rectangle, wrapped in red and green wrapping paper. A tag on it reads "For Susie," with a little cartoon drawing of Susie smiling with huge teeth.

Inside is a soft-bound notebook, each page containing a slightly different drawing of a dripping, many-tentacled, many-toothed monster.

"It's, um, a flipbook, I think it's called? If you turn the pages really fast, it, uh, looks a little bit like a movie. I don't know if you've seen The Gore Sludge Monster From Outer Space Three, but I, um, tried? Do to something like that?"

Noelle hopes Susie likes it. Alternatively, she hopes she sinks into the floor and is never seen again. That would also be fine.